The following discussions are taken from alt.brojed.com,
archivists who kept old brojed files, and the freedomofspeech board.
If anybody has anything of interest, particularly
in the realm of old brojed files concerning the fallout in Leander TX,
feel free to send email to dhowiec@yahoo.com, and I will try to find a
place for it on this page...
It
all starts with this post on June 25, 1998... Or, actually, it doesn't,
for there is a pre-post here.
And, so-- here we go:
......................................
......................................
Melindalfa: It seems wierd to call
that a "missionary story", because I'm not sure what "mission" Jed is on.
It's not Gods. Or maybe it started out that way, but he got quite confused
along the way. Anyway, there are wonderful missionary stories about people
getting healed and so forth, so let's not confused by what the Bible calls
a "false prophet" (Jed).
BTW, one of Jed's "disciples", Ken Jones,
came to my church about 6 months and unfortunately, decided to stay. The
first indication I had that he isn't reading the Bible to carefully, was
when he told us that he is perfect, and hasn't sinned since he became a
Christian 5 yrs ago.
......................................
Bro Jed: It is interesting that
the Pastor and elders invited him to stay. But evidently, you believe you
are a better judge of a ministry than your elders. Did you decide not to
stay?
......................................
Erin Glaser: I don't know of a
church that would ever turn anyone away from worship there, no matter how
misguided they might be. If I ever heard of such a church, I would think
it unChristian indeed.
But then, I am a strong proponent of the
parochial system and don't believe in "church hopping" til you find one
that suits your interests.
......................................
Waldmeyer2: Have you heard of a
"minister" who kept a church from worshiping? Our church for years loved
to sing and praise God. Then Ken Jones came, and told our church that the
Christians there (which he didn't believe were Christians because they
were not totally sinless has he claimed to be for the last 5 years) were
too wicked to sing and worship God. He stopped all singing and praise in
the Sunday services!
Ken once said "Praise and worship is like
having a spiritual orgasm - it's totally self-serving". The Bible teaches
repeatedly on the importance of worship! "God inhabits the praises of His
people"; Jesus said, "If the people don't praise Me, the rocks will". "God
created a people to praise Him". Praise and worship draws a person close
to God for the person is focusing his attention on God and recognizing
God for whom and what He is. Was Ken afraid of this?
......................................
Bro Jed: God is holy and he expects
us to be holy. Ken fears God enough not to promote hypocritical worship.
Regretably when there is sin in the camp, even the righteous suffer as
does God. ...
If we do not obey God all other expressions
of worship are in vain. When I preached at Trinity in April worship and
praise in the form of music and singing had been restored. Evidently, Ken
and the leaders believed that the people had responded to the message of
repentance.
......................................
Waldmeyer2: Jed, Ken Jones turned
many people in the church AGAINST the elders who stood on God's Word. There
were many new Christians in the church who knew little of the Bible; Ken
taught CONTRARY to the Bible, and told them they were to HATE those who
challenged what he taught because they were sinners if they didn't believe
him. These people began to sound like all the reports I hear about you
and your precious little daughters: "I hate you! - You're going to hell!"
Only this was toward Christians, people they had loved and cared about
previously. (not that it's right to hate anyone - God loves ALL and we
are to also.)
MANY people finally gave up and left the
church - people who had been in that church many years - had taught there,
had been elders. Ken told the people who stayed that they weren't to get
together outside of church at all - no more going out to lunch after church,
etc. and they weren't to discuss anything of the things he taught when
they were outside of the church.
You can't imagine all the wrong and unScrptural
things that Ken has done in the year he has been there. Or maybe you can
- - maybe you know all about it. Maybe you support it. ??
That would be very interesting to know!
......................................
Bro Jed: If you study the history
of revivals typically there is a purging that accompanies the revival.
Most people and pastors cannot handle the purging so we rarely have revival
......................................
ELSMANLAW (aka Lawyer Jim): IN
ANY EVENT, I GET NERVOUS ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE WALDMEYER WHO ARE CRITICIZING
AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE A RELIGIOUS BODY MORE HOLY BEFORE GOD. IS NOT THAT THE
WHOLE BALLGAME?
......................................
MelJoyceF: That's not Ken's whole
ballgame - his ballgame is more centered on showing hatred toward anyone
who dared to question him about anything he said, and to get other people
to hate those people also! He destroyed what was a wonderful, healthy church
in the midst of a spiritual revival (prior to his arrival).
......................................
Bro Jed: Sounds like to me Ken's
got a holy hatred:
(Psa 139:21-22) Do I not hate those who
hate Thee, O LORD? And do I not loathe those who rise up against Thee?
{22} I hate them with the utmost hatred; They have become my enemies.
Ken is very Bible centered in his hatred
of sin and those who oppose the preaching of righteousness.
......................................
ELSMANLAW (Lawyer Jim):l. Again,
I know not about the facts of Ken destroying a church body,.
2. Since Jesus is head of the Church,
anything that He builds will not be destroyed, in any event..
3. Ken is not the last word on anything.
4. The Bible is, and , technically, it
is not subject to private interpretation for one to impose on another.
5. It sounds to me that both sides may
have flirted with warring with flesh and blood, and not with the evil spiritual
warfare.
6. It is certainly true that many churches
today get carried away with Praise & Worship, believing that they can
woo the presence of God into their midst., and then capture Him to do miracles
with their finances and healings, etc. God is not so easily fooled, and
such behavior should be inveighed against in a prophetic anger. After all,
this whole Tulsa movement to "Name it and Claim It" is really based in
theNew England Theosophical Society, out of which arose Mary Baker Eddy,
etc. and worse like Edgar Cayce. Mind over matter (the latter of which
does not exist).
7. Ken may be young , but that does not
disqualify him to see evil. His judgment may be poor, as Jed and many of
us were shocked that he would marry on such short notice, but that is a
matter between him and God, and long engagements are often just games.
Leave and cleave is good practice. Even Hindu arranged- marriages work
in India and Bhuddists ones in China. Ken got her parents 'permission I
am informed.
8. I have witnessed Ken do 2 commendable
and mature things:
A. He debated a skilled debater named
Jim Webber on "Holiness" at Jed's Conference, the second day after his
wedding. He could easily have cancelled and attended to his bride. He could
have dodged a skilled debater with many tricks up his sleeve. He was all
guts, no glory.
B. He visited Holy Hubert in the Nursing
Home far away in Raleigh, N.C. and reported on Hubert's needs to me. That
was Chapter l3 Love in action.
I can only speak of what I have seen ,
as an old lawyer who weighs the evidence. One thing that goes without saying:
THERE SHOULD BE A MEETING OR SO TO RECONCILE
ALL THESE OLD HURTS, AND I WOULD BE GLAD TO MEDIATE IN A CHRISTIAN WAY.
THIS HISTORY DOES NOT GIVE GLORY TO JESUS, NOR HIS BODY, THE CHURCH.
......................................
Melindalfa: God has given us the
Bible as the ultimate tool for discernment. We are to follow Jesus as a
sheep would follow a shepard, but. humans have fault. (No brainer) "All
have sinned and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23. "If we claim
to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1 John
1:8. We have to use wisdom and discernment every time we get instruction
from, especially a new, leader. 1 John 4:1 says "Do not believe every spirit,
but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false
prophets have gone out into the world."
Ken contradicted God's word many times.
I eventually went to the pastor and asked him if these new beliefs were
now a part of the church's doctrine. They were.
When Ken started removing people from
leadership, such as decons, and putting in people he wanted there, that
was only the beginning. When he began to graphically describe male masterbation
one Sunday, it dissapointed me that no one except my mother had the guts
to take their daughters out from under the vulger words of this young evangelist.
And when he began labeling some of the college students (who had been attending
for several years) "sinners" and told them they had to leave the church,
that was enough. How can anyone come to know God or get closer to God when
they're not allowed to church???????
......................................
ELSMANLAW: It sounds like Ken Jones
wreaked havoc down in Leander. While it is difficult to draw any conclusions
without a full understanding of the facts, I do have a couple of comments:
l. Explicit exposure of male masturbation
may seem like poor judgment on Ken's part, but SIN is very specific and
ugly, and God can so direct. Life is not a tea party.
2. I am glad to hear that a Church was
kicking Sinners out. Paul did it in First Corinth. with the man who was
living with his father's wife (not his Mother). There are always Sinners
amongst the Saints. It is a favor to the Sinners to be booted. The man
in First Cor. returned to the Church restored in Second Cor., you can note.
The churches of America allow all kinds of evil to sit in the pews, so
to increase the collection. Of course, I do not mean that first-time visitors
should be kicked out, so do not come against me for that.
3. I know Jed and have met Ken, but I
would not hesitate to rebuke them if they were wrong, just as I would expect
from them. I am not saying that Ken was all-correct about destroying a
church in Texas However, if the Church was of Jesus, it would not be harmed,
as Jesus makes not one mistake in purifying. I pray that you people down
there will be even stronger for the Lord Jesus, due to the experience.
......................................
BeYontRy: So Ken can't condemn
a sin without describing it in graphic, Penthouse-style details?
Maybe they're lucky he didn't bring in
visual aids, or ask for volunteers from the audience.
......................................
Waldmeyer2: Yes, there are always
sinners amongst the saints - as with the Corinthian in an incestuous relationship,
who had been confronted repeatedly but refused to terminate his wicked
lifestyle.
It's not our job to try to figure out
who has secret sins and who doesn't. Consider the parable of the tares
amongst the wheat: during growth, they appear identical. Jesus said to
leave the tares and let His Father deal with identifying them at the end
time. Ken Jones came into our church and immediately started making decisions
as to which Christians "weren't really Christians". He threw out (amongst
others), the young man who had once dated the girl he (Ken) decided to
marry - told him to never come back to the church again, and told the girl
she was never to talk to him again. Ken ended up with basically a church
of new converts: many new Christians had just come into the church just
prior to his arrival, and many of the Christians who had been in the church
for many years were driven out. Thus he had a group of people eager to
learn the Scriptures, but with no prior understanding of them. He taught
the Scriptures from a very twisted perspective, and these people received
it in ignorance. There has been much hurt on the part of those who were
driven out - driven out of a church they had raised their children in for
many years, the church they had given of their own funds to support, the
church they had literaly laid a foundation for, tied rebar for, framed
and roofed. When some of the teenagers went back to see a friend who had
stayed there, they were told to get off the church property and never come
back, that they were not to talk to anyone who went there.
......................................
Doug Berry: And that, children,
is a cult. Charismatic leader cutting off all former contacts by edict,
demands that anyone who isn't a sheep is somehow demonic.. Sad really.
While I'm not a Christian, I've been welcomed at many Church events and
services, and most of the time felt welcome. It sounds like Ken is one
of those people who would have been burning "heretics" to get their farmland
a few centuries back.
......................................
Erin Glaser: As I said in another
post, lack of accountability is the cause of a great deal of departure
from God's will. Some denominations derive their leadership from "the people"
in a sort of democratic fashion; for example, there are councils and conventions
and doctrine is voted on, the presumption being that God will lead the
people, at least on average. Other churches derive their leadership from
a single person or a small group of people whom everyone acknowledges as
having authority and being led by God. In both of these situations, there
is some accountability at the local-church level. When a pastor starts
saying and doing things that the people regard as contrary to God's will,
then people have some channel to go through... if it is of the first type,
they "vote him out" and if it is of the second type they "go above his
head." But a lot of little storefront churches have no such accountability
and when the pastor goes wacko there is nothing the people can do but leave.
The moral to this story IMO is that storefront
churches are dangerous. The only way they can be sure to be true is if
God is leading the one person in charge. But if God *was* leading him,
then he couldn't make any errors. And the very fact that there are THOUSANDS
of these little churches, and they teach many different things, shows that
the chances are very, very low that God is leading the pastor of the church
on your corner.
......................................
BeYontRy: A church that is "truly
of Jesus" can't be harmed? How far does this invulnerability extend? Will
razor blades stored in such a church stay sharper longer, etc?
......................................
Joshua Weiner: Sounds like Ken
has been putting some really fat rocks in the crack pipe and hasn't been
sharing. Anyway. He sounds like a regular prick and this is the sort of
thing fundies do. Either gather the populace to throw him out and tell
the deacons and pastors to pack up with him, or find a new church. Its
you vs. Ken's ego and it looks like the ego has the upperground and has
full support of the id and super-ego.
If fundies do this to other people's churches,
then its little wonder I don't want them in the civil government.
......................................
Erin Glaser: This may sound quite
harsh to you, but... If this is what your pastor says, I would advise you
to LEAVE this church. Doctrine should not be changed just because a new
guy has come in to roost... and if it changes on such a whim, it cannot
be true to Christ.
IMO the lack of central leadership invites
this sort of problem. I mean, heck, any Joe with the necessary down payment
can set up a "church" and start preaching whatever the heck he wants. Let
the buyer beware.
> When he began to >graphically describe
male masterbation one Sunday, it dissapointed me that no >one except my
mother had the guts to take their daughters out from under the >vulger
words of this young evangelist. Such behavior is completely inappropriate
for a congregation which includes young children. It is as if he had passed
around copies of Playboy and Hustler to show people what they shouldn't
be reading. Adults can, and should, be challenged, pushed out of the "comfort
zone" in a sermon about sin. But children need a comfort zone to thrive.
There is no need to
> And when he began labeling some of the
>college students (who had been attending for several years) "sinners"
and told >them they had to leave the church, that was enough. How can anyone
come to >know God or get closer to God when they're not allowed to church???????
This is entirely inappropriate. Everyone
should be welcome at a church, believers and non-believers, people who
have successfully conquered sin (with the help of God) and those who are
still struggling. I think you've answered your own questions. This man
is not helping you or your fellow churchgoers.
......................................
Waldmeyer2: when I first started
reading the newsgroup Jed Smock had numerous posts on it. Since he or Ken
Jones have not answered my e-mails, (though I know for a fact that Jed
- at least - has been online since) and since Ken has refused to give ear
to those in the Texas church that questioned him, this was my next choice
in trying to get in touch with Jed, as Ken's overseerer (or "general"??)
Why would I want to communicate with Jed?
Hopefully, to prevent any other church-people down the road from all the
suffering that many wonderful Christians in my church went through at Ken
Jone's hands. You out there who aren't Christians, don't judge us by what
K or J have done - it is NOT the Biblical pattern, it is not the law of
love that God requires of His children either towards other Christians
or towards non-Christians. I have never seen such hatred and pride from
any one who calls themselves Christian.
......................................
Nathan: Rationalizing "confrontational
evangelism" is something the General has been doing for about 25 years
now.
......................................
Melindalfa: Sounds like a 25 year
old misconception. Jesus threw people out of the temple who had set up
shop to sell misrepresented merchandise. And he rebuked Pharisees and others
sinners who had hard hearts. But when the Bible records an apostle or disciple
ministering to Christians; or when they spoke to sinners to convert them
to salvation, they never displayed this hatred and lack of compassion that
you disguise as "confrontational evangelism".
Let's keep in mind, this is more than
just being rude. Ken publicaly embarred people in the congregation. Several
people have told me he called them into the pastor's offices, and literaly
yelled and screamed at them about how wicked and disguisting they are.
I am told in one case, he publicaly called a young man down, and told him
to leave during one service. This is more than just someone's style, it's
not Godly. As you say, it doesn't follow Jesus's methods. Jesus's actions
reveal the heart of God.
I'm not saying that there is not a time
for rebuke, there certainly is. And Jesus was not always "gentile" with
people, but we should read how he handles situations. You say Jed patterns
his ministry after Paul, why not after Jesus?
......................................
Nathan Engle: In the manuscript
from _The Mystery of Christ_ Jed seemed to make the case that the teachings
of Jesus and his methods were mostly directed towards his fellow Jews,
while the work of Paul and the other apostles offers an account of a supposedly
more-relevent "market trial" for the dissemination of Christianity among
gentiles.
Thus, by this assertion, Jed and Ken model
their acts on those of Paul because they face many of the same problems
he did, and because they draw inspiration from many of his solutions to
those quandaries. I'm not sure it's necessarily a strong argument, and
I'm sure it must be appalling to anybody who actually cares when Jed and
Ken give Christianity a bad rep, but from my standpoint I'm perfectly willing
to simply accept their decision at face value.
......................................
MelJoyceF: There have been many
people who have had to deal with a great deal of hurt from Ken and the
leadership at the church - much of which is too personal a nature to ever
mention here - - public humiliation over personal things is a biggy - a
means of exerting control over people. Thus the appeals via this NG to
Jed Smock and Ken Jones to not do the same at other churches down the road
(which they have not exhibited the slightest bit of remorse over). It leaves
me wondering how many other churches they have done the same to. Ken even
bragged about being thrown out of many churches that would not accept his
teachings. Too bad our little church was not one of them! So much hurt
would have been averted.
......................................
Bro Jed: As it pertains to the
effect of the revival upon this local church, I will now paraphrase what
the leadership has said, and still says, as well as, the general consensus
of the dedicated members within the same: "Trinity Christian Center has
never been this healthy and active; we are more focused than ever; we have
never before experienced such an awesome manifestation of God's power;
it seems so easy, now (after the revival), to do what was so difficult
before." These are just a few, of the many, statements that have been made,
again, by the leadership, meaning, Pastors, Elders, Deacons, and the dedicated
core of Trinity! Anyone can consider themselves free to contact Pastor
Ron Rhea at (512) 515-5591, if the veracity of the above statements should
be called into question.
Lastly, and this is only for Mr. "Meyers,"
I have a message for you from Pastor Ron Rhea (the pastor of the poor,
pitiful, beat-up church, of which, you claim to be a part): he does not
agree with any of your assessments, as it pertains to the state of the
church; and, if he finds out you are in the church, and saying what you
are saying, he will personally reprove you, and if you do not repent, expel
you. If you have any questions, contact him; I am just relaying the message.
......................................
And thus we move to a new thread, that last
post serving as a segue... beginning
here.
......................................
BeYontRy: Good to know that Xians
can't function in an environment where even one person isn't thinking in
strict lockstep with everyone else. The Pagan victory is assured!!!!
......................................
Shalalhash: "Dedicated core" is
those left behind after MANY families left who had been there many years.
Families who had been teachers, deacons, leaders. The new leaders are mostly
very young, inexperienced and practically hypnotized by Ken Jones.
UNTRUE! "Anyone" excludes anyone who left
the church, and anyone from the churches these people have since gone to.
We're being told all the people who left are now in cults where as the
opposite is true. Those who have stayed to rescue our church from a cult
cannot even approach our own pastor about our concerns!!!
To contact Ron with questions is to be
thrown out of the church without even being heard out. How many more of
us is he going to throw out?
......................................
Bro Jed: Mostly very young and
inexperienced? Non-sense! The Pastor has been a Christian for over fifteen
years, and for most of that time has been involved in some form of ministry;
and, the only elder has been a Christian for about the same. The other
two leaders are deacons. One is 40+ years old and well-established within
the Scriptures; the other--the only "young"one--Alan Couchman is stable
in the faith (according to the Pastor), and growing in knowledge daily.
Get your facts straight!
Hypnotized? What a joke! Influenced by
me? Yes; and, Thank God! Hopefully, you are not envious!
>UNTRUE! "Anyone" excludes anyone who
left the church, and anyone from the >churches these people have since
gone to. We're being told all the people >who >left are now in cults where
as the opposite is true. Those who have stayed >to >rescue our church from
a cult cannot even approach our own pastor about our >concerns!!!
LIES! LIES! LIES! I am looking forward
to returning in December, and hopefully, having the opportunity to taunt
such a coward! You are a wimp! How dare you say you can not approach Pastor
Ron. You coward! You spineless punk! Grow up!
......................................
Waldmeyer2: EXACTLY the way any
of the church people were treated who dared approach Ron or Ken with questions
/ concerns about the new teachings, method and hatred that Ken brought
in.
......................................
BeYontRy: So it's a *bad* thing
to not want to be kicked out of the church one grew up in now?!?!? I guess
after Jed's missionary experiences, he feels that taunting Christians is
safer than taunting Pagans.
......................................
......................................
So we move forward. What happened to the
revival? Well... move to this
thread, still in August of 1998, and:
Melindalfa: I go to another church
in Leander now (I don't think there are but 2 spirit filled churches here)
where great things are happening. I can't tell precisly if I would call
it revival yet; sometimes it's hard to pinpoint exactly when it starts.
But there are more and more people coming, confessing sin, being saved,
getting baptized. We've more than tripled in size in the last year.
But Jim, you bring up a good point. History
records that when revivals occur, whole communities are talking about it;
many are being saved; many Christians are repenting of sin. Getting rid
of sin is usually at the heart of a revival. I don't want to speak for
other Christians at that church, so I'll say from my view point, revival
was on the way to Trinity in Leander! In fact, as you may know, there are
record #'s of people across the WORLD converting to Pentecostal salvation.
And Leander needs it!! I believe revival started, and very quickly fizzled.
I know that people's hearts were open, and therefore God can move and work
through lives no matter who's preaching on the platform. And I'm sure that
did happen. But what could have been revival meetings turned into theological
discussions. I'm sure the leaders had their reasoning, but after Ken came,
all other areas of ministry ceased. If I'm remembering correctly, music
ministry, youth meetings, young adult meetings, cell group meetings. Apart
from Sunday morning, the other service most emphasized was Ken's theology
classes.
Open air preaching and witnessing is not
unfamiliar to hardly anyone, we've all done it, or seen it somewhere. But
Ken's style is so unusual for a self proclaimed Christian, that our local
radio news station sent someone down to a campus where he was, to broadcast,
and make fun of him.
There are a lot of people who no longer
attend that Church who have managed to forgive and are now avidly praying
for Trinity. I don't know what's going on there now, or who is left there.
But I truly hope that God will be, or has already been able to start a
new work.
......................................
And we move to this interesting case found
here.
Subj: Hi
Date: 98-08-01 19:45:03 EDT
From: JNYS67D@prodigy.com (MR DANIEL J
LEE)
To: beyontry@aol.com
Hello,
This is Danie John Lee, member of Trinity
Christian center. I do not see anything wrong with Ken's e-mail and frankly,
PLEASE POST THIS TO ANYONE you wish to.
He was right on the mark. Lies! Lies!
Lies! >
LIES! LIES! LIES! >And you are a wimp
and coward and you are still SINNING by GOSSIPING and SLANDER a YEAR after
the revial started. PATHETIC.
Perhaps the real issue is that YOU REFUSE
TO LET GO OF YOUR SIN!!!!!!
Why don't you repent and get saved???
Hmm???
Don't you dare challenge Ken Jones. Don;t
you DARE challenge me.
And STOP CHALLENGING and TEMPTING God!!
Or I promise you this, you WILL BE CURSED before the year is over. >
Love in Christ,
Danie "in the lion's den" Lee
......................................
Recently deleted from brojed.org, the following
chimes into the "q + a" section -- and could be considered Jed Smock's
"last word" on the subject.
Waldmeyer, Tue, 17 Nov 1998 01:04:24 EST:
Your web page, http://www.brojed.org/Update.htm says "WILL be posted within
24 hours" - I'll check back to see if that is true.
Jed Smock and his underling, Ken Jones,
came to our little church in Leander, Texas and wrecked havoc there! They
took over the leadership, convinced many people there that anyone in the
church who questioned his teaching is a hypocrite, not really a Christian,
and should be forced out of the church.
Many wonderful Christian people finally
gave up and left because of Smock and Jones. Many teenagers have been deeply
hurt - and are to this day - by these two men who err greatly in their
understanding and teachings of God's Holy Word. It seems to many of us
that Jed Smock's and Ken Jone's primary purpose in life is to destroy the
people around them that they come in contact with, under the guise of teaching
the Scriptures.
Rather than bringing God's love to a lost
and dying world, they bring their own hatred, claiming it to be God's.
They blaspheme as they attribute to God that which is not of God. How sad
that so many young people in our colleges today are being turned away from
God by the hatred of Smock and his followers.
......................................
Jed SmockIt is regrettable that
the people who call themselves Christians don't have eyes to see. You read
the scriptures and understand not. You hear but don't comprehend. Is it
not true that every time in recorded history that God began a move of His
Spirit that the result was division?
God's clarion call to the church is this:
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship
hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light
with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath
he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of
God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they
shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate,
saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith
the Lord Almighty. Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let
us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting
holiness in the fear of God. " 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1
And again: Think not that I am come to
send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come
to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her
mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's
foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother
more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more
than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth
after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it:
and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. Matt 10:34-39
The issue in the church is not God's love
for us - that is unchanging. The real issue is do we love God as we ought.
The deciding factor is the presence of sin in the church. The scriptures
say if we love God, we keep His commandments. Jesus' commandment to the
woman caught in adultery was to go and sin no more - not cut it down to
two or three times a week.
The division God brings is always over
the issue of sin and is between those who want to press on and walk with
Jesus in purity, and those who do not. The love we look for is not people
comforting themselves by how much God loves them, but their love for God
that compels each man and woman to walk in purity. What hatred there might
be is directed against sin. We are commanded to abhor evil and love only
that which is good. Remember Waldmeyer that the scriptures warn that without
holiness YOU won't see God: "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without
which no man shall see the Lord. - Heb 12:14
Read it yourself.
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide
is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many
there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is
the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware
of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly
they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather
grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth
forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good
tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth
good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,
and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not
every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom
of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven .
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in
thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:13-23
Do false prophets call people to forsake
sin or comfort them in their sins so that in the end the Lord calls them
workers of iniquity? Notice that these people are "religious" who are working
iniquity, who are continuing to sin.
You accuse us of not knowing the scriptures,
but a plain and simple reading of what it says is enough to judge you.
You need to repent and serve the Lord with all of your heart, not just
that which is convenient. The heart totally sold out to the Lord is known
by it's purity, not it's platitudes.
"And hereby we do know that we know him,
if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not
his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth
his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that
we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to
walk, even as he walked. 1 John 2:3-6 Jesus preached repentance and holiness.
He was killed for it. If you are not willing to lay down your sin, how
can you lay down your life?
Lastly, if people were wounded it can
only be because they are compromising with sin. You included. God did not
send the Holy Spirit into the world to bring "God's love to a lost and
dying world". John 16:8 says this: "and when he is come, he will reprove
the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." Do you think
the Lord expects the Spirit to reprove the world and not His church? "For
the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it
first begin at us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the gospel
of God" - I Peter 4:17
......................................
......................................
These are found in the archives of the Freedomofspeech
page.
* Excerpts from numerous posts of Daniel
J Lee's: Toward a member of the church in Leander, for not accepting Jone's
teaching that a Christian can never sin again: "pray that every demonic
spirit is released against him" "be cursed to the point of death" "may
the gossipers and slanderers such as WALDMEYER BE FOREVER CURSED" "unles
you repent, my curse will indeed stick with you."
......................................
......................................
The world begs to know: Was Ken Jones sinless?
Let's see:
Ken Jones, August 7: I disagree
that a person can be a saint, and, at the same time, commit sin, e.g. masturbate
(from now on MB)! What!? A person that is morally blameless, pure, and,
by the blood of Jesus, washed from all, underline that word, sin, and,
at the same time, commit such a filthy, nasty, dirty act as MB? Come on,
man! No way! To believe this would not only be to be at odds with Scripture
after Scripture, but, to plainly go against the very definition of the
word/title "saint." Check it out, and you will see.
Are you a mad MB? If you answer yes, then,
I, with God, demand that you forsake such trash and perversion, and, without
reserve, give your soul, i.e. your life, to Jesus the Son of God for pardon
and purfication!
Lastly, I would like to testify that I
have been happily married, this is the key: being satisfied with one woman,
for one year and three months, and, no, I have not MB'D! In fact, as a
rule, I did not as a saint who was single (the times I did were early on
in my walk with the Lord)!
......................................
August 8:: First, the first part
of the quote is out of context, "...no, I have not MB'D!" This statement
is to be placed in the context of marriage, (how I used it), in which I
have not MB'D ONE, no, not ONE, time!
Second, I do see how the last statement
could be taken the wrong way by certain individuals, namely, "In fact,
as a rule, I did not as a saint who was single..." I will take the low
road here, so to speak: improper wording. I was not trying to convey that
AS A SAINT I did occasinally MB, but, rather, from the time I was converted,
in August of 91, until I was married, in May of 98, I MB'D as a rare, rare,
exception, not the rule; however, in those rare occasions, and, I mean
RARE, I was not a saint, that is, a morally blameless individual! Understand?
I hope this helps.
Third, I see no hypocrisy in this. Maybe,
as I said in the above, bad wording, but hypocrisy? Do you know what the
word means? If so, then please demonstrate how I am being hypocritical.
I am not imposing upon others that which I myself am unwilling to do. Oh
no. Far from it! I, again, frankly confess, that the times in which I have
sinned, post initial conversion, which, again, have been very rare, I was
not a SAINT (a morally blameless/complete individual). No, no, no, a thousand
times, NO!
I do not deny, no, not for a second, that
a Christian can, i.e. they have the ability to do so, and, may (not necessarily)
commit sin. However, again, to press my point, at the moment they do, they
can no longer, until they repent and return unto their first love, call
themselves a saint.
......................................
Nameless: So now you know - when
Ken Jones says he is perfect he is lying.
......................................
Ken Jones: How so? I doubt very
much that you can demonstrate this; but, rather, like most individuals
of your kind, you will just continue to make BARE assertions, that is,
assertions supported by [ ]!
Nevertheless, let us, my friend, remember
the words of Jesus, "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy
words thou shalt be condemned."
......................................
Excuse for his sins after becoming a Christian:
The gospel according to Ken Jones excuses sins in a single man's life because
he is not married:
Ken Jones posted: Lastly, I would like
to testify that I have been happily married, this is the key: being satisfied
with one woman, for one year and three months, and, no, I have not MB'D!
In fact, as a rule, I did not as a saint who was single (the times I did
were early on in my walk with the Lord)!
Ken Jones also posted: "from the time
I was converted, in August of 91, until I was married, in May of 98, I
MB'D as a rare, rare, exception, not the rule; however, in those rare occasions,
and, I mean RARE, I was not a saint, that is, a morally blameless individual!"
NOTE: Jones says "...happily married,
this is the key: being satisfied with one woman"
......................................
Ken Jones, August 10, 1999:
Not at all. Read the post again; but, first, drop the negative mindset
through which you are reading what I post. I think this will help.
Nameless continues: NOTE: Jones says "...happily
married, this is the key: being satisfied with one woman"
Ken concludes: Exactly. If HUSBANDS were
satisfied, that is, happy with their wife, then MB, or any other sex outside
of marriage, would not occur. The same is applicable with single men: if
single men will be content, that is satisfied, with their present location
in life, then, MB, or the like, will not occur. Of course, the ultimate
key is found in, whether a person is single or married, poor or rich, and
so on, remaining satisfied with knowing God!
In closing, regrettably, in the times I have
sinned, post intitial conversion, I was not content, satisfied, and happy
in just knowing God.
......................................
Melinda, August 10, 1999: Ken, since you publically lied,
about the above, you MUST publically confess this to the people of Trinity.
You were so hard on the people at Trinity who sinned, and now we find out
that when you said you hadn't sinned in years since converting to Christ,
you were dishonest. From the pulpit, you mislead me and all the other members
of the congregation. You absolutley insisted in public confession. Therefore,
it is your duty, to return to Trinity and apologize! Can we expect you
to practice what you preach? Don't take this litely, this is very important
to the credibility of your ministry.
......................................
Unnamed: Mr. Jones... I find it very interesting that the
Christians who left Trinity because of you, the people you and Daniel hence
have and still label "rebellious sinners", were, at the time you were claiming
to have been sinless since becoming a Christian, shown by God that you
had secret sexual sins. Several people felt this very strongly from God
and it constituted part of the reason they chose to leave rather than sit
under your teaching and admonitions - they felt strongly impressed by God
that you were living a lie before our church, that you were not sinless
as you stood in the pulpit and proclaimed. Trust is a very important factor
in choosing what leaders Christians will submit to.
Perhaps those who remained under your teaching were too spiritually
blind or immature to hear from God regarding this.
......................................
Daniel J. Lee: Title: Are You A Masturbator, Aliesha????,
March 01, 2000 at 22:12:23
What??? Are YOU a masturbator and now you are trying to justify it?
… stop this wicked, sick habit and LEARN to control your sexual apetitite.
… If someone were to call you would you say, "Oh, just a mintue, I have
to play with my crotch."
......................................
March 02, 19100 at 17:30:35: As far as the whole debate concerning
masterbation and sex, I am baffled as to why you try and seperate the two
... Would you want someone to catch you in the act of masterbating??? Hmmm???
... Becaue Paul, like me, would say masterbation is a SIN!!! ... A masterbator
is wasting sex DESIGNED for PROCREATION ... So, again, I ask you, are you
a masterbator?
......................................
......................................
And now we finally get to Ken Jones's side of the story:
Brother Ken, August 07, 1999: Nameless asks Did you verbally
abuse/humiliate parishioners in public, as was reported? Ken responds:
No. Nonetheless, I am sure that some would say that they were "verbally
abused" and/or "humiliated," e.g. like those who REFUSED to forsake sin,
and sought to justify the same, and, then, wanted to cope an attitude with
me. Yeah, I am sure these individuals felt as if I were verbally abusing
them, when I rebuked them sharply that they might be sound in the faith.
Nameless asks another: Did you browbeat people into confessing sins
in public?
Ken responds: No; and this so far from the truth, that it would be
funny if it were not so pathetic.
Nameless asks another: Did you urge people to shun family members
and friends deemed unworthy?
Ken responds: No. In fact, I encouraged right the opposite. However,
there were times that I "urged" certain people to avoid particular individuals
for a time or season for different reasons. However, this would have been
an exception, and not a rule.
......................................
My questions to Ron Rhea, Danny Jaynes, Bill Peeples, Alan Couchman,
and everyone who was at Trinity Christian Center when Ken Jones came:
1. Did you witness anyone at Trinity Christian Center being verbally
maligned, slandered, slurred, critiqued or libeled? Was anyone presented
to the congregation in a manner that belittled that person, caused others'
respect for that person to be lessened? Was anyone criticized to others?
Was anyone in leadership criticized to others and eventually removed from
leadership even though that person continued to attend the church? What
about people who chose to leave the church - were they criticized to others
for doing so?
2. Did Ken Jones encourage, compel, pressure, coerce you to make
public confession of any sin? I personally saw Jones practically force
numrous people into stating their sins publically, and into the microphone
for the entire church to hear and with the possibility of being tape recorded.
Were you counseled privately by Ken Jones or any other leader in the church
and compelled to disclose any sin to that person? Were you requested to
write a list of your sins down on paper and turn it in to anyone in the
church? Many people claim this happened to them.
3.) Did Ken Jones or Ron Rhea tell people to not associate together
under certain circumstances? I personally heard Jones telling the church
not to go out to any restaurant after church, not to talk to other church
members after the service, not to discuss amongst themselves anything he
had taught. Those who stayed in the church were forbidden from talking
to those who left the church. Perhaps some of you reading this think you
were not personally TOLD to not associate with certain people, but you
recall Jones teaching about this very thing and generally urging a disassociation
upon the church members regarding certain people.
Read again Jones' response to the third question. He emphatically
states, "No", then proceeds to explain how in fact the answer is actually
"Yes".
......................................
Betrayed by his own words on August 08, 1999, 23:15:39:
To Ken Jones: In a Sunday night service at Trinity Christian Center
in Leander, Texas, you, dressed in a cream colored suit and red shirt,
placed your hand flat upon your chest and stated (exact quote; I wrote
it down at the very time you said it): "Don't look at me and think that
I have sinned. I have not sinned in the ten years since I became a Christian."
YOUR EXACT WORDS THAT NIGHT. This was just about two months before you
married. MANY people were present and heard that statement.
Let's see - you wrote: "from the time I was converted, in August
of 91, until I was married, in May of 98" You had been a Christian less
than seven years - a possible mistake in subtraction or perhaps you were
rounding it off to ten.
So let's say you MEANT to say "I have not sinned in the SEVEN years
since I became a Christian." But wait! You wrote in your post:
"from the time I was converted, in August of 91, until I was married,
in May of 98, I MB'D as a rare, rare, exception, not the rule; however,
in those rare occasions, and, I mean RARE, I was not a saint, that is,
a morally blameless individual!"
So, when you stood in our church and said "Don't look at me and think
that I have sinned. I have not sinned in the ten years since I became a
Christian." You actually must have meant to say, "I have not sinned in
the SEVEN years since I became a Christian EXCEPT OFF AND ON DURING INTERMITTENT
SPELLS WHILE I WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN THROUGHOUT THOSE SEVEN YEARS."
You were asked: "Did you verbally abuse/humiliate parishioners in
public, as was reported?"
Your response: "No. Nonetheless, I am sure that some would say that
they were "verbally abused" and/or "humiliated," e.g. like those who REFUSED
to forsake sin, and sought to justify the same, and, then, wanted to cope
an attitude with me. Yeah, I am sure these individuals felt as if I were
verbally abusing them, when I rebuked them sharply that they might be sound
in the faith."
*THE TRUTH*: You exceedingly abused and humiliated MANY people at
Trinity verbally - repeatedly! A BLATANT LIE, MR. JONES! *YOU* know it,
I know it, and EVERYONE who was at Trinity would know this is a lie! You
walk with your head in a fog and have no idea the hurts and wounded spirits
you left behind at Trinity!
You were asked: "Did you browbeat people into confessing sins in
public?"
Your response: "No; and this so far from the truth, that it would
be funny if it were not so pathetic."
*THE TRUTH*: You exhibited an amazing skill (such as cult leaders
usually do) at coercing people into confessing their sins publicly, IN
THE MICROPHONES, to the entire church. You named specific sins and called
for anyone who had ever done any of them to come forward and confess them
publicly. You preached against masterbating then called for anyone who
had ever done so to come to the microphone and confess it publically. You
called for women and girls to come forward and make public confession of
such.
You told people to lie down on their faces in front of the platform
and call out every sin they could think of from their past. You STRESSED
public confession was necessary. You told all the people lying down to
shout out louder. Then, after an hour, you told them they would probably
have to come back every night that week to continue calling out their past
sins. You told them to go home and think of more sins and write them down
to come back on Monday night and "call them out to God."
Many people later were appalled at themselves for being so swept
up by your cunning words as to make public confessions over past sins.
Some were eventually so humiliated that they never wanted to attend church
again. YOU LIE WHEN YOU SAY YOU DID NOT BROWBEAT PEOPLE INTO CONFESSING
SINS PUBLICALLY!
You were asked: "Did you urge people to shun family members and friends
deemed unworthy?
Your response: "No. In fact, I encouraged right the opposite. However,
there were times that I "urged" certain people to avoid particular individuals
for a time or season for different reasons. However, this would have been
an exception, and not a rule."
*THE TRUTH*: Your urging "certain people to avoid particular individuals
for a time or season" was NOT "an exception", it was ORDERED upon the entire
church! From the start, you told the church members they were not to get
together with each other outside of church and discuss ANYTHING you had
preached. Further, you ordered that none of the church members go out to
a restaurant together after the services but to go home and be alone.
More truth: Family members who accepted your teaching were told they
were not to talk about any of your teachings with their own family members
whom they lived with who did not accept your teachings. Those who stayed
in the church were ordered to shun, ignore and not talk to anyone who left
the church. Even those who worked in the church's daycare and private school
but had quit attending the church services were shunned by the workers
who chose to follow you. This went on for MONTHS! Your followers who worked
in the daycare would not so much as say "Good morning" or "Hello" to the
workers who had left the church.
A wife who swallowed your teachings was told not to communicate with
her husband who did not believe as you wanted him to.
You can't imagine the hurt you left behind! This had been a very
close-knit church for many years. People weren't just "fellow church members",
they were FAMILY to each other. You coerced people into rejecting their
own blood relatives and friends who had been as close as family for years.
You can't imagine the trust you destroyed in many people. You TAUGHT people
to not trust others. You can't imagine the hate you instilled in the hearts
of those who followed you! People who had previously glowed with the love
of God on their faces quickly became hardend, cold with faces carved in
stone. The change was amazing - and pathetic.
What a bunch of CROC you are posting! What a bunch of LIES! You are
a BIG BIG dissappointment!
Someone else from Trinity said today, upon reading your posts, "What
in the world? Those are out and out lies!" "Could he possibly believe his
own lies?" "Does he think we've all forgotten?"
Mr. Jones - you may fool anyone you want on this BB who was not at
Trinity, but those of us who were there KNOW what you said! Those who read
this BB now know BY YOUR OWN WORDS that you lied to us that night! Maybe
you just don't care since you are no longer there, and will likely never
see any of us again. But think what your lies have done to so many people!
Do you care even in the least about the hurt you have caused so many
people?
Ken Jones further posted: : Nevertheless, let us, my friend, remember
the words of Jesus, "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy
words thou shalt be condemned."
......................................
Brother Ken, August 09, 1999 : Before any response will be
given to the folly, of course, there is some truth mixed in amongst the
lies posted, although, very little, you must meet the conditions that I
have already laid out:
1. Identify yourself, that is, tell us who you are.
2. If any "rumors" are reported, the source must be quoted.
God Bless, Bro. Ken
PS -- Again, no identification, no response; as a rule.
......................................
August 09, 1999: I'm not interested in your respone - you
know the truth; those at Trinity know the truth; Daniel knows the truth.
You have betrayed yourself by your own lies.
......................................
August 09, 1999: Ken Jones posted : 2. If any "rumors" are
reported, the source must be quoted.
The source (Ken Jones):
At Trinity: "Don't look at me and think that I have sinned. I have
not sinned in the ten years since I became a Christian."
Proven to be a lie by Ken Jones' post on the board: "from the time
I was converted, in August of 91, until I was married, in May of 98, I
MB'D as a rare, rare, exception, not the rule; however, in those rare occasions,
and, I mean RARE, I was not a saint, that is, a morally blameless individual!
I, again, frankly confess, that the times in which I have sinned, post
initial conversion, which, again, have been very rare, I was not a SAINT
(a morally blameless/complete individual). No, no, no, a thousand times,
NO!"
......................................
August 09, 1999: If the posting on Ken's arrogant, abusive, cultic
"rulership" was false, Jones has nothing to worry about.
If it's true that Ken Jones lied about his onanism (how squeamish
he is about that M word!); had females spread-eagled out before him as
he literally rubbed their noses in their sins; humiliated the daylights
of worshipers; ordered them about like servants, even making them be cold
to family, etc., then yes, Jones should worry. Such cruelty is more disgusting
than onanism.
......................................
August 09, 1999 No, not "spread-eagled" - just laying face
down on the floor. Be careful not to presume and add to what is posted.
The absolute truth is disgusting enough.
Read this quick before the webmaster pulls it off to protect Ken.
......................................
Ken Jones, August 10, 1999: What I did say, and have been
saying all along, is this: since my initial conversion in 1991, as a rule,
I have not sinned. Period. I have not sinned in years.
......................................
......................................
Here's Daniel Lee on sinlessness through 1999. His life story of redemption
is at the bottom of this document.
Daniel J. Lee: July 21, 1999 Ken and Jed are morally perfect
and, morally speakiing, infallible through Christ Jesus who makes them
so.
My wife and I have done extensive research into what the Bible teaches
concerning holiness and sinless living and we keep coming to one conclusion:
God requiores absolute obediance to His commands in order to inherit eterenal
life. Absolute obediance necessarily excludes all sin (disobediance to
God)."
I absolutely coddle ZERO lust in my heart. Do not forget, I am sinless
because Christ Jesus empowers me to live holy and sinless... Yes, I plead
100% not guilty. I am SIN FREE. Now, the question is, ARE YOU??? REPENT!
......................................
Daniel J. Lee: August 10, 1999 Annika and I have had to cut
off our relationships with my wife's family because they claim to be Christians
and yet refuse to repent of all sin and obey all the commandments of Jesus
Christ. (note: "refuse to repent" is his term for anyone who says that
a Christian does not live a totally perfect, sinless life)
......................................
The following are directed to a fellow Leanderite church-goer who did
not subscribe to the "sinless" doctrine:
Daniel J. Lee:"pray that every demonic spirit is released
against him"
"be cursed to the point of death"
"may the gossipers and slanderers such as WALDMEYER BE FOREVER CURSED"
"unles you repent, my curse will indeed stick with you."
The opinion of Charismatic churches:
Many charismatic chruches and leaders (like Benny Hinn, Rick Joyner,
those asociated with the Totonrto/Pensacola Revival (Curse) and others
involved with this "catch the fire" or "flow in the river" movement, will
be directly responsbile for ushering in the kingdom of the anti-christ.
Not all charismatics have been sucked into this anti christ spirit, but
many have. The entire 90's charismatic revivals are a COMPLETET PHONY (for
the most part) and are operating under the spirit of demons and devils.
Particulary the Toronto curse and others like this.
......................................
......................................
Not having any other old brojed posts at my disposal, I have to skip
and go by conversations about conversations in the freedomofspeech message
board. In an effort to cut heresay, the following comes from those who
were there:
......................................
2/19/00 Smock may not teach against birth control, but when
Jones showed up at the little church in Leander, TX, he taught that using
any kind of birth control is wrong, even "counting days" to be "safe".
Course, not too many young couples stuck around to follow his teachings,
but the few that did are producing babies about as fast as possible, although
that was not their plans when they married (before Jones showed up).
Another proof that followers of Jones are mindless numbskulls that
can't think for themselves, and have no concept of what the Bible really
teaches. Blind following the blind.
6/20/00 Eldon posted: ******* on the contrary, Ken Jones is
likewise warm and friendly, personable and considerate. Apparently, you
have never spent time with him in a friendly environment.
Ha! If/when BroKen Jones happens to be in a friendly environment,
he always manages to destroy any friendliness present.
You can't even have a friendly atmosphere when you go out to a restaurant
with him; he begins criticizing the waitress, calling her a sinner, and,
instead of holding a normal conversation with those at the table, he begins
preaching to the restaurant in a loud voice under the guise of "talking"
to those at his table. Such a creep!
One who has been in BroKen's presence, as have numerous friends and
relatives - repeated number of times.
......................................
6/25/00Eldon posted: because I've been told by people who
know that these anonymous people that are criticizing Ken are lying. All
he has to do is identify himself by name and there's a Ken-friendly pastor
in Texas ready to blast him. * * *
So why doesn't any "Ken-friendly pastor in Texas" post their blasts
on Smock's BB? The church has a web address, the office staff have e-mail
addresses via the site, along with internet access AND Smock's URL. Ever
see any posts from the church's leadership? Nah - they've canned Jones
so don't care what anyone says about him. They've changed the name of the
church from Trinity Christian Center to Lifesprings in an attempt to dissassociate
themselves from the reputation they gained in the community during the
time Ken Jones was there.
Eldon further posted: ******* it is the very pastor of the church
in Leander that stands ready to blast the liars who have been posting anonymously
against Ken Jones... This liar who has been slandering Ken, has been mouthing
off anonymously for months now, but is unwilling to validate his status
as a faithful witness, because he will be instantly repudiated.
* * *
Eldon, do you even know the pastor? Have you ever talked to him yourself?
Do you know ANYTHING about him besides what you've read others say? Nope.
He hasn't a clue as to who YOU are.
Repudiated by who? The Leander pastor who eventually denounced Ken
Jones, apologized for having him in the church, and promised the church
Jones will never be welcome back to the pulpit again? Ha! You'll not see
any defense posted by him here. There are still a couple Jones-holdouts
in the church, but officially, Jones is unwelcome to the church.
Eldon, do YOU really want to know the truth? You brazenly reject
what eye-witnesses say, but you are basing your rejections on what other,
NON-eyewitnesses say. Shallow. Very shallow.
......................................
6/27/00 9:03:22 pm (Eldon) likewise, why doesn't the pastor
that you claim has denounced Ken Jones post here to confirm it?
(Eldon) Therefore the pastor in question would do well to mark Ken
Jones as an offender HERE publicly, IF HE TRULY HAS DENOUNCED KEN!
The pastor is doing all possible to disassociate the church's past
ties to Ken Jones; you'll not find him posting postive or negative about
Jones. "Ken Jones? Sounds vaguely familar; who is he?" There's already
been mention of the church changing its name to try to rid itself of the
Jones past.
I won't be surprised to see Eldon post a supposed comment from a
supposed phone conversation or supposed e-mail received from the above
pastor; but posting such supposed quotes contradicts Eldon's adamant stance
in demanding absolute proof of who says what.
(Eldon) Anyone can get on a computer and post whatever they want
to say here, that doesn't qualify them as a witness. The ladies and gentlemen
of the jury are waiting for witnesses to identify themselves so that their
testimony can be verified.
Anyone can post anything on these BB's and attach any name to it.
For all any of us know, "Eldon" is an AKA of Daniel's. Consider the letters
used in each name - they are quite similar: each contain d,e,l,n - the
a in Daniel changed to o & the i dropped. Hmmm... how can we know if
Eldon is Eldon, or Eldon is Daniel?? I wouldn't be surprised - they are
sounding more and more alike, and the less Daniel posts, the more Eldon
posts. Daniel couldn't keep quiet for very long.
(Eldon) no, I figured it's a woman because she asked questions and
then proceeds to blab away as if she knew the answers.
Ah! Now we are presented with another possibility: if presenting
a question followed by blab denotes origination as female, Eldon is likely
a woman... er, girl is more probable. Eldon's criteria for identifying
authors certainly throws doubt on Daniel's gender as well - - who can forget
all those "Hmmmm?s" and, more often, "Hmmmm, you stupid ignorant creep?"
all followed by mindless chatter.
(Eldon) Setting aside the fact that women throughout history have
been notorious troublemakers, talebearers, and slanderers, it IS possible
that Comment is a NOT a woman. Could be just a pantywaisted male.
Ah ha! Eldon must have realized he was catgorically placing himself
within his qualifications for female, so added a clause allowing for the
possibility of specified writing style to originate with males, albeit
"pantywaisted" such as he and Daniel.
I have to agree - it's humorous to watch Eldon/Daniel squirm over
the identity of who is revealing the truths about what happened in Texas.
......................................
......................................
6/24/00 2:32:48 pmAlthough the leadership in our church here
in Leander, TX have recently openly disowned Ken Jones, there are a few
people still devoted to Jones. These few say Daniel Lee has gone off the
deep end, is likely suffering psychotic illness. They are quick to disassociate
themselves from Daniel's personal brand of religion, and attempt to protect
the reputation of their hero, Ken Jones, from being associated with Daniel
Lee as well.
......................................
Kira ... 6/24/00 3:52:43 pmThanks for your comments. You say
Preacher Ken Jones was repudiated by your church? (Hope they hired a better
clergyman). There was lengthy discussion about that on Cope's BB. Cope,
like Daniel Lee, defended Jones. Cope even said he phoned that church to
unravel conflicting stories. Cope's version was, that Ken Jones was "welcome
back" any time. Then Cope closed discussion, so no harm could befall Jones.
......................................
6/27/00 10:37:46 amYes, he eloped and kept right on going
up to Ohio. It was about a year later the pastor decided not to welcome
Ken Jones back.
......................................
10/6/00 8:30:09 amA strange situation indeed. Those "wicked
sinful putrid piles of dog-vomit" that were driven out of the church because
they didn't agree with Jones have received that same letter that Cope (who
has never been to Leander) posted.
What many assume is going on is the church is in desperate need of
money (those who left were the best and longest term supporters of the
church). One or two still in the church may be a little kinder toward those
they drove off, but many are still very hateful, including leadership.
If there had been a softening of the heart, the pastor and others would
have called those they rejected and apologized; rather, they are still
extremely cold when encountered around town. I doubt any ex-trinity people
will be going.
Not likely the church leadership sent Jones the letter, as the pastor
has told the church Jones is not welcome back. But there are still some
who are faithful to Jones, who might have posted the invition. Jones wouldn't
dare show up; he's too afraid of being confronted in a situation where
he is not in full control and he's too prideful to risk being rejected
if he did show up.
......................................
10/9/00 8:37:59 pmSometime during the last 3or 4 days the
invitation on the Smock BB has been removed. Maybe the pastor found out
it was there and contacted Smock about it.It would be a show worth watching
if Jones mistakenly thought he was invited and were to show up. He may
be tolerated at the wedding of a friend of his little wife just so she
can come (he'd never let her go back to her lifelong friends without him
there to control her, won't even let her talk to anyone in Texas without
him standing guard), but that's a different story than actually attending
a church service.
......................................
10/20/00 9:48:36 pmInterestingly, Jones was never mentioned
at the LifeSprings (Trinity in Leander) special service celebration last
Sunday to honor each of the past leaders. One of the honorees was a church
minister that Jones had repeatedly ridiculed and criticized to the church,
a man Jones had proclaimed was not really a Christian; someone Jones had
told the church to shun. This person was honored, but Jones was not mentioned,
not by anyone. Not even when, at the close of the service, an "open mic"
time was announced for anyone who wanted to voice his or her own words
of praise for anyone. Not a word mentioned of Jones. Like a bad nightmare,
something to forget and pretend never happened. A slide presentation was
shown and made available on CD for everyone in attendance, but no Jones
on the presentation.
No, Jones is not welcome back to speak at LifeSprings (which changed
its name to disassociate itself from the Jones-past). Why the posted invitation
on Smock's website? It might be more interesting to find out why it was
suddenly removed.
......................................
Pete, 2/26/01Ken Jones was very upset with me, to say the
least, for not thinking the best of him when questioned about his methodolgy
and incidents that happened to him in Leander. He decided to declare me
a "non Christian" because of my cynicism or lack of "love". I apoloigized
publically and he STILL taunted me, hinting that it was not good enough.
He was very vague about things and used sarcasm and taunts similiar to
what Adrian has done to you. You mentioned the fact that he talked to Robert
Borer about it and YOU agreed with him about my spiritual condition. (Yet,
you don't know me or EVERYTHING that happened.)
......................................
......................................
The following is Daniel's personal account of events, and how he was
edified by Ken Jones. Rebuttals from a Leanderite follow each entry, and
are underlined.
Daniel J. Lee 1) raised by two Godly parents in a non-denominational
charismatic church... Just living my life selfishly and as a hypocrite
like most were doing at Trinity Christian Center (not a very Christian
place as Evangelist Ken Jones would eventually discover).
So your Godly parents made you stay in an unGodly church for 18
years? Strange.
Ken Jones could never have made any money off the church if he
had come in and said "you guys are doing great - keep it up". Instead,
he had to convince the church that they couldn't survive without him there.
Jones convinced about half the church they weren't Christians.
Most of the other half left because they couldn't stomach Jones' manipulative,
self-serving unScriptural teachings. Jones had every Sunday school teacher,
the youth pastor, etc. removed from leadership, claiming they were wicked
people and had never been Christians. Funny, the pastor (Ron Rhea) and
assist. pastor (Danny Jaynes, now Jones' father-in-law) claim they had
never sinned since becoming Christians years earlier; if so, why was the
church they were pastoring so wicked for so many years before Jones came
along? And if Ron, as he claimed, had never sinned for many years, why
did he on several occassions prior to Jones coming, tell the church that
he had to repent of sinning against his wife and daughter the week previously,
and of numerous other sins? Guess when Jones came along, Ron forgot about
those things and could only remember the times he had not sinned, thus
he "was sinless for many years".
I attended Leander High School and was an A-Honor Roll student, took
advanced college credit courses in history and english, attained best actor
trophies in drama and consistently impressed my peers, parents and teachers
with my talents and intelligence. Of course, despite my very prosperous
high school record, this was ALL DUNG because I was not even a real Christian.
Daniel, about HALF your classmates at Leander H.S. was taking
"advanced college credit courses in history and english" ("E"nglish) at
Leander - the school had a pilot program set up with the Austin Community
College, Cedar Park Site nearby to see how students faired under the experimental
classes. It was set up in hopes that more students would become interested
in attending college courses on the grounds that they had already taken
basic introduction-level junior college class(es) in H.S. Of all the many
ACADEMIC awards given out at your class's Senior Awards Ceremony, how many
did you receive? Zip, zero, nada. "...attained best actor trophies": make
that singular; we all KNEW you'd get that! You were a ham for years!
2. February 1st, 1997 --- As I was driving home from Trinity Christian
Center, going 70 mph, a woman driving the opposite direction at 70 mph
drifted over the yellow double line and crashed into me head on. I broke
my wrist.
You might be glad to know they dropped the speed limit on that
section of 183 from 70 to 60 and 65 - too many accidents, especially on
that really bad curve. But, were you driving? I thought it was someone
else; maybe Derek? But then I can't say my memory is clear on that.
3. This accident GREATLY SHOOK me and filled me with deep gratitude
for Jesus. I, for the first time, consecrated my life to Jesus and sought
to EXALT HIM.
Daniel is SAVED!
Was this before or after you got really mad at one of the other
guy at church for dating the girl you were intersted in? Remember? You
dropped out of church entirely for several months because you were so upset
about her not liking you.
4. March of 1997 -- with my broken wrist fully recoevered and my
life now blazing for Jesus, I began to actively preach at my high school
during lunch. I also helped spearhead Friday night evangelistic outreaches
at the local mall in Cedar Park, Texas.
By "evangelistic outreaches" do you mean the one time a few people
from church tried to pass out fliers at Lakeline Mall and were immediately
thrown out by mall security?
5. April 4, 1997 -- Ken Jones made his first apperance at our church.
I, filled with the Holy Ghost, was greatly encouraged by this evangelist
as he blazed through town.
Daniel is SAVED and FILLED!
Now this contradicts what you have previously posted - you've
stated you were in SIN when Jones came.
6. Mid-April of 1997 - I began to backslide and fall into GROSS sin
as I dabbled on the internet and got involved in relationships with girls
I should have never started. This dampened my zeal and soon I fell completely
away from Christianity. I was backslidden and on my way to Hell by the
end of May 1997.
Daniel is DOWN and IN SIN!
Daniel! Shortly before you moved to the West coast, you were moaning
around church that you NEVER had had a girlfriend, that girls didn't like
you, "What's wrong with me?", and you you'd probably end up single the
rest of your life! Hence, you jumped at the chance to meet Annika in person.
What "relationships with girls"?
7. May 1997 - A prophet named Rick Schmidt at Trinity Christian Center
warned me from the Lord Jesus to stop playing games and to return to Him.
I did not heed the warning.
Daniel is WICKED and REBELLIOUS!
8. July 1997 - A prophet named Michael Jaynes warned me to return
to Jesus. He warned me not to allow the internet girls to come between
me and my first love. This GREATLY SHOOK me but I still did not heed the
warning. Instead I hardened my heart.
Daniel is STILL WICKED and STILL REBELLIOUS!
10. End of August 1997 - Evangelist Ken Jones arrives for the second
time. Because of my backslidden condition, I am TERRIFIED of Ken Jones
but I force myself to attend his first revival meetings. A glory cloud
descends at Trinity and Ken Jones helps the Holy Ghost birth a REVIVAL
at Trinity Christian Center. I, and many others, are exposed as WRETCHED
SINNERS ON OUR WAY TO HELL!!!
Daniel is once again a BACKSLIDDEN, WRETCHED SINNER.
I suppose Jones might have seemd a bit intimidating to people
with no backbone; he was extremely arrogant and demanding, wouldn't even
tolerate an adult having to use the restroom during his long tirades of
screaming and yelling "sermons" in service.
11. September 30 1997 - After a month of repenting,
Daniel is REPENTING!
Jesus responded to the plea of the thief on the cross with "Tonight
you shall be with me in paradise". Good thing Jesus didn't preach a gospel
of month-long repentence like Jones did at Trinity.
seeking Jesus and breaking up my hard heart, I go to eat my lunch
outside during work under a tree. The Spirit of Yeshua falls upon me and
Jesus commands me to arise and follow him. I become a TRUE CHRISTIAN once
again.
Daniel is SAVED! You did NOT use the name "Yeshua" in those days;
that's only been the last couple months.
12. Otcober 1997 - I am boldly joining other revived Christians from
my church street preaching in downtown Austin, Texas and at the University
of Texas. Ken Jones continues to spearhead the revival that rages on throughout
October.
Daniel is STREET PREACHING!
"Rages on"? Well, at least Trinity made a public spectacle of
itself in the little town of Leander, that it is still trying to do away
with (hence the name change from Trinity to LifeSprings). The Jones-nuts
used to stand on a street corner wearing a sandwich sign that stated things
like "God hates faggots and whores". Leander is a one-streetlight town;
doesn't take much to be noticed by the public.
13. Late November 1997 - Due to dabbiling on the internet again,
I begin to backslide once again. I fall into some secret sin and my heart
grows cold toward Jesus and the revival.
Daniel is WICKED! Sounds like Daniel began practicing Jones' favorite
sermon topic.
............sidenote: As
seen here, Ken Jones's "Sinless" message had taken hold by December
22.
14. Early January 1998 - Evangelist Ken Jones uncovers my sinful
state and sternly rebukes me. I am "cast out" of Trinity Christian Center
and from all fellowship functions. Instead of humbiling myself and repenting,
I harden my heart, grow bitter, and decide to distance myself from my church.
Daniel is STILL WICKED and REBELLIOUS!
15. January 1998 - June 1998 - I fall into deeper and deeper sin,
foresaking Trinity Christian Center and involving myself in other things.
I, in practice, turn my back on Jesus.
Daniel is MORE AND MORE WICKED but telling people he is SINLESS!
16. July 1998 - My parents urge me to move to Oregon to attend Gutenberg
College in Eugene, Oregon. I initially resist. However, my older brother,
Pastor Ron Rhea and my parents convince me to move to Oregon.
Daniel is STILL IN SIN but telling Trinity folk he is SINLESS
and has to get away from his wicked parents by moving to Oregon. It would
be interesting to hear from Derek on this BB about your family's attitude
toward your running away. Ron might have wanted you out of the church,
to be sure.
I also meet Annika Bolon on the internet. We fall in love with each
other over the internet.
Just like a fairy tale! Two people who have never met fall madly
in love.
17. Mid July 1998 -- Eager to "get on with life" I request to be
transfered in my CompUSA job to the Portland, Oregon store. Annika tells
her college guy friends to let me stay with them. They agree.
18. August - 1998 - I move to Portland, Oregon. Three weeks later,
Annika and myself elope behind our parents' backs.
Daniel is REBELLIOUS and ELOPES with someone he has known for
three weeks - definately a marriage founded on wisdom and God's guidance
- both you and Annika have posted that God TOLD you guys to marry, but
you were (reading back above) in a state of being "deeper and deeper [in]
sin" at this time.
19. September 1998 - Annika and myself, newly married, move from
Portland south 100 miles to Eugene. I begin school and Annika works full
time. We are still both miserable wretches on our way to Hell but generally
comfrotable in our sin and hypocricy.
So the baby-pumper had to support you while you lounged away in
college where you eventually dropped out.
20. November 1998 - Annika discovers she is accident. We are horrified.
I will have to quit school to support my family. This is terrible news!
My world begins to collapse as I once again begin coming under conviction
from Jesus over my sinful past.
I was terribly sorry to hear quite some time back about Annika's
two miscarrages, and pray for both her and her present unborn child to
remain healthy.
April 13, 2001: Daniel is STILL IN SIN, and is LYING! Daniel,
read your old posts on Smock's BB about why you dropped out of college.
Maybe your new Messianic friends will buy your excuse under #20, but you
have already told why previously, and it had nothing to do with Annika!
You said God had called you to preach and you couldn't keep up your classes
and preach also.
21. January 1999 - Annika has a violent miscarriage. As the blood
flows from her, Jesus tells me distinclty that this IS ALL BECAUSE OF MY
HYPOCRICY AND SIN! He commands me to return to Him. I refuse and harden
my heart. We cahin rent movies and retreat into our darkness further.
Daniel is STILL in SIN but STILL CLAIMING TO BE SINLESS!
22. February 11th, 1999 - I begin charting my past on my laptop and
realize I am a filthy sinner, not a Christian as I deluded myself to believe.
I admit to Annika that I am wicked.
Daniel, claiming publically that he is SINLESS realizes he is
IN SIN.
23. February 12th, 1999 - In the privacy of my bathroom in Eugene,
Oregon, I CRY OUT FOR UESHUA TO SAVE MY WICKED SOUL!!!
Daniel is now SINLESS (again). Daniel, you did NOT cry out to
"UESHUA", or to Yeshua, or to any other name. Be HONEST! you didn't start
using Hebrew names for God or Jesus until about 2 or 3 months ago. You
are still LYING! Are you lying to yourself as well as to us? If you believe
your #23 then you have fooled yourself. If you don't believe it, then you
are purposely lying to the BB readers. Daniel is now SINLESS but LYING!
24. Febraury 13th 1999 - After fasting from food all day,
Another chance to brag about his spiritual acts: "Let not your
right hand know what your left hand is doing" "thy Father, who seeth in
secret, shall reward thee openly."
Annika and I get on our faces before Jesus. WE confess sins to each
other and to God. The Holy Ghost falls upon us like dew. We are both WONDERFULLY
CONVERTED!!!
Daniel is SAVED!
25. March 1999 - Our marriage transforms, joy floods our lives and
we feel like we have just been "born again". We invite Annika's family
to our place and we reconcile for our sinful elopment.
If so, the reconciliation must have been shortlived, as Daniel
and Annika later posted on Smock's BB about how horrible and wicked her
parents and Daniel's parents are, and why Daniel & Annika rejected
them utterly throughout 1999.
27. Mid to late April 1999 - My Eugene pastor foresakes us, not wanting
to be involved in street preaching.
u>Would be interested in reading that pastor's account of if he forsook
Daniel & Annika, and if so, for what reasons. Daniel has harped repeatedly
against people who accuse others on BB's, but he has no qualms about doing
so himself. Daniel is currently LIVING CONTRARY to what he preaches!
28. Late April of 1999 - I meet Paul deParrie, Preacher George, Jim
Webber, Tim Yocom, Edward and a host of other street preachers in Portland,
Oregon. Annika and I, GREATLY EXCITED, begin travelling to Portland every
weekend to fellowship and street preach with these new found precious brethern!!!
Remember Daniel's terminology here: "precious brethern" - yes, these
are the same people that Daniel has on his Hellfire List.
29. May 1999 - The Holy Ghost commands Annika and me to move to Portland.
I am to drop out of college, support Annika as she stays at home as the
Bible clearly insatructs. Out of respect for my parents, I finish out my
semester at Gutenberg College.
Blaming your dropping out on God, now?
30. June 1999 - My parents disagree with my decision to drop out of
college, move to Portland and work full time to support Annika but they
still encourageand support me.
Yes, Daniel's parents DO SUPPORT HIM. On Smock's BB, Daniel first
posted that they support him financially (when braggin that "God supplies");
then he posted that they never gave him any money. "Oh what tangled webs
we weave, when first we practice to deceive." Easy to remember events that
have happened, but very hard to keep tract of all the things lied about
and what those lies were. Reality makes a much stronger mental image; it's
an absolute, compared to lies which are subjective.
Annika's family are VERY CRITICAL of my brand new street preaching and
so I demand them to repent for the criticism. They refuse and so I BREAK
OFF ALL fellowship with Annika's family. I forbid Annika to even contact
her family.
"Honor thy father and mother when they are old".
32. August 1999 - Travel to Jed Smock's church.
It was good for Jed Smock to meet Daniel in person and find out what
he really is like. Eventual result was Smock barred Daniel from his BB,
declared him (forgot exact word) a nut case.
33. September 1999 - Excited, filled with zeal, preaching as much as
possible, I stupidly declare a FALSE PROPHECY. I later repent of this prophecy
at the beginning of October.
Daniel, the SINLESS preacher LIES and BLASPHEMES, declaring "thus
says God" when God said nothing of the sort! I wouldn't call it "repenting",
you had set a date which came and passed without your "prophecied" destruction
occurring, and you had to eat crow.
34. ... I am intrigued but not too interested in pursuing the Messainic
concepts.
Daniel is too REPROBATE to grasp the Messianic teachings that he
now embraces!
Annika also suffers her second miscarriage but due to the Holy Spirit
filling us it is not much of a traumatic experience.
Maybe not too traumatic for you, Daniel, but I have known many Christian
women who have suffered one or more miscarriages, and it has ALWAYS been
VERY traumatic for each one. Too bad you are so wrapped up in yourself
that you don't feel what your wife goes through. Unless Annika is the kind
who doesn't mind the death of her own child. I have to admit, it isn't
always traumatic for non-Christian women who don't value the life of an
unborn child.
35. November-December 1999 - We fellowship with our dear street preaching
family as we celebrate the holidays with them and continue to street preach
in Portland on a weekend by weekend basis. We grow VERY CLOSE to many street
preachers in Portland.
"Many" - according to Daniel's connotation.
37. February 2000 -- Street preaching begins to become a "norm" for
me as I have been doing it for a year consistently. I start falling into
a rutt. I loose my first love and start backsliding from Jesus by falling
into pride. I start embracing sinful doctrines like shooting abortion doctors.
I also start sinfully slandering Annika's parents and other relatives.
Pride begins to harden my heart.
Daniel is BACKSLIDING! Daniel, declaring himself to STILL BE SINLESS,
begins teaching how GOD SHOWED HIM that abortion doctors should be shot.
Daniel, SINLESS, slanders his in-laws and is filled with PRIDE! (Maybe
I should pause here and go dig up some of Daniel's archived posts from
this time period).
38. March 2000 - Annika and I pack our bags and meet Evangelist Ken
Jones and his wife in Denver, Colorado. We begin a preaching trip with
him in the hopes of launching a full time campus preaching ministry.
Daniel, filled with SIN, but declaring himself SINLESS, is PREACHING!
39. April 2000 - Ken Jones begins to uncover my prideful and sinful
heart. He sternly rebukes me but I resist and harden my heart. Eventually
he sends me back home, commanding me to repent.
Daniel, with a PRIDEFUL AND SINFUL HEART, is telling the world he
is SINLESS, all the while becoming more and more REBELLIOUS!
40. May 2000 - I return to Portland in a great state of depression over
how things turned out. My high hopes of entering the full time cmapus preaching
scene with Ken were shattered. Consumed with my pity and selfihsness, I
continued to remain backslidden and cold toward Jesus.
Daniel, STILL posting on the BB and preaching on the streets that
he is SINLESS, is in a "GREAT STATE OF DEPRESSION... AND SELFISHNESS",
remaining "BACKSLIDDEN AND COLD TOWARD JESUS"!
41. Summer of 2000 - I worked over 50 hours a week at a car rental place.
I am miserable working so mahy hours and great conviction fills my heart.
Yes, it must be tough when you're used to having others support you
and you get a little taste of reality, and what the Bible means when it
says "If a man does not work, neither shall he eat", and "If any man does
not care for his family, he is worse than an infidel".
I am very depressed and I stop street preaching altogether. I begin
to feel suicidal.
This is, to me, the most interesting part of your post so far, as
around that time, God burdened me heavily with praying for your state of
mind, especially that you would not attempt suicide. I was greatly stressed
over how you would deal with the fact that you had made false prophecies,
as well as promised never to "prophecy" again if they proved false, which,
of course, they did. I prayed intently that you would not walk away from
God over discouragement from your own false beliefs and pride.
42. September of 2000 - Overwhelemed with misery, I quit my car rental
job and try to seek something else to help me.
There's just GOT to be a 10-hour a week job out there that pays the
same monthly as a 50-hour a week one!
I continue to harden my heart against God and His Holy Spirit. My first
baby is born but it does little to break my sin.
Daniel is in SIN but "prophecying" that his baby will become a mighty
street preacher! Sorry, don't think I saved Daniel's posts on that.
43. October of 2000 - My parents and older brother visit me. I have
not seen them in over 2 years. They greatly encourage and edify me. My
first love for Yeshua is sparked in my heart. Reconciliation between my
family and Annika's family occurs.
Interpretation: Daniel, sick and tired of having to work full-time
to support himself, his wife and now also his son, makes reconciliation
with his parents, in order to "seek something else to help me."
I brokenly and tearfully repent to Annika's parents for my slander back
in Feb of 2000. I choose not to press them for the sin they comitted against
us but let bygones be bygones. Great healing is done.
So, Daniel, once again your theology proves to be very flexible -
it can mean whatever you want it to mean as long as it suits your purpose
at the moment. In this case, you "choose not to press them for the sin
they comitted". Interesting, you find that "Great healing is done" when
you don't storm and rage at people and try to be the Judge that only God
Himself is over peoples' lives.
44. November 2000 -- Relit with a fire to serve Jesus, I begin to weep
and cry out for revival to begin in Portland. To begin in my own apartment.
At the end of the month, Lissa and Michelle begin attending prayer meetings
and bible studies at our house that soon turn into an every night gig.
45. December 2000 -- The GREAT PORTLAND REVIVAL begins and launches
out from my apartment. The Holy Ghost floods us as we meet very night,
street preaching in His power and annointing.
Daniel, a revival is when many people repent and turn to God. Read
back through history books, biographies and autobiographies of the world's
great revivals: hundreds and thousands turned from sin to God. According
to you, "revival" means "Daniel is shouting at students several times a
week".
The rest of my history has been carefully detailed on Jed'd bb and this
bb.
So was all # 1-44, but evidently you're hoping none of us will remember
it, as your posts then greatly contradict this April 13, 2001 posting.
As you all know, in January and February of 2001, a GREAT SHAKING occured
in which Jed Smock, and many street preachers here in Portland were exposed
in GROSS sin. This only strengethed our resolve to continue to press on
into the Holy Ghost and His GREAT PORTLAND REVIVAL!!!
Daniel is ... um..., uh... SINLESS ONCE AGAIN! Um, no, uh, IN SIN!
Oh, no, he's HAVING GREAT REVIVAL! Wait, maybe, it's "IN GROSS SIN BUT
DECLARING HIMSELF SINLESS". I just can't keep up with all his changes,
coverups and excuses.
Let's just make it easy: SMOCK IS IN GROSS SIN!
Now, in the 5th month of this GREAT REVIVAL, we continue to press on
His Name, preaching, labouring, praying and studying His Word, refusing
to turn to the right or the left.
It is now April 2001 -- nearly two years now of lamost non-stop campus
and street preaching.
Daniel, you're bragging!
I have now been arrested for the gospel's sake 7 times.
Daniel, you're bragging!
I have been spit on, beaten, slugged, injured, threatened, slandered
against, kicked out of many churches, foresaken by so called Christians
. . .
Daniel, you're bragging!
but I count it all GLORY in order to attain Jesus, my Lord and Christ!!!
You're so AWESOME!
This, let it be KNOWN, is my true and accurate PAST.
Which part, what you posted above, or what you've posted while you
were SINLESS, HOLY, and FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST all through the last
few years?
......................................
So, the torch is passed. One revival begats another one.
......................................
......................................
Finally, there's this, which signifies an end to the cozy relations
between Ken Jones and Daniel Lee, he who began the Leander Revival and
he who would try to continue it...
Ken Jones January 20, 19102 at 23:58:32
I, J. K. Jones, want to set the record straight: Patrick Johnston
and Brother Jed Smock are absolutely correct in their round condemnation
of your perversion of Christianity in teaching that our obligation extends
to all of the law of Moses. This is false doctrine. End of debate!
In addition to this (and this is primarily for the sake of Adrian
and based upon his testimony): when Adrian challenged your need to call
him to repent, in lieu of the fact that you had called me, you represented
to him that you had called me to primarily "thank me" and "not to repent."
This, also, is patently false. Please address this last point, namely,
to Adrian, and be specific in your response.
......................................
Daniel's response? Uh, just go this
thread.
......................................
......................................
For some reason the old church tune I learned during "Sunday school"
(held Tuesday nights) has popped in my head:
"I am the church, you are the church, we are the church together...The
church is not a building; the church is not a steeple; the church is not
a resting place; the church is the people."
Or maybe it's not...
......................................
......................................